eBay Customer Service - How they screw you by not giving it and how you can screw them taking it

I don't remember exactly the day I got an actual assigned eBay rep, but I have one. I remember getting an email from someone named Steve. Steve thanked me for my business and let me know that I had done so well that now my account was a "managed" account. At that point I was bringing in about $3K/month in fees to eBay.

Now, when I have problems I don't have to deal with the impossible cluster of online forms and canned answers. I call Steve.

Steve never picks up the phone. He screens his calls. I can picture Steve in his cubicle. The phone rings, he looks at the caller ID, and lets it ring. Voice mail picks up, I leave a message (which is usually urgent, otherwise I would not call since I prefer email) he listens to it and he calls me back. Sometimes it takes no longer than 2-3 minutes, which is what has made it obvious that he checks to see what I want before calling back, but he always calls back.

It is nevertheless upsetting that with the amount of business and money I bring to this company Steve the Ditwit won't just pick up the phone when it rings. I am ok with the arrangement because although unprofessional I know how it works.

That is the privilege of being a big powerseller: I get someone to call me back, but it is also one of the most infuriating things a large company could do: treat the small guy like crap.

EBay has a market value of $42.1 Billion. Their revenues just for 2006 were $6.7 Billion with gross profits of $4.71 Billion. Meg Whitman's salary is $11M, and her insider trades just for 2007 are in the $50M range (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/it?s=EBAY)

Let's think about those numbers for a minute: eBay has a market valuation of $41.1B. How much money is that?

To give you an idea, a sense of proportion: there are 117 countries in the world with a GDP (Gross Domestic Product) that is LESS than $42.1B. The first one on that list is Croatia, with $42.1B, the last one is Kiribati, with a mere $60M. Some of the countries in between are Guatemala, Lithuania, Lebanon, Iceland and Paraguay, to name a few.

eBay had enough revenues just in 2006 to purchase (cash only please) the entire country of Nicaragua, all of it.

And yet, you cannot get a customer service rep on the phone.

eBay purposely makes it as difficult as possible to allow you to get in touch with them. "Oh, do you have a problem? A question? Perhaps you feel you need to speak with someone? Please check our FAQ's, they will surely help you. No luck uh? Your account has been hijacked you say? Right.. Please check out our forums and their helpful online communities. Still nothing? Click here to chat with one of our handy reps in Bangladesh. Need a phone number? Please fill out this form and tell us what you want to talk about. Oh, look at that! Our system has detected that your question can be answered by the following FAQ" and back all over again.

There are companies out there that have a fraction of the revenues that eBay has while managing a much more complicated marketplace (Southwest Airlines comes to mind, they were in the news recently) and it takes three rings to get a human being at the other side of the line.

Do you feel it should be so hard to get in touch with eBay's customer service? I bet you don't.

So, how about some unlisted numbers to get some customer service when you need it?

eBay's Unlisted direct numbers:

Headquarters
(408) 558-7400
(408) 376-7400
(408) 558-7401
(408) 376-7425

Toll Free (listed in a few places)
1-800-322-9266
1-888-749-3229

Fax numbers:
1-408-376-6554
1-408-558-7404
1-408-376-7517
Employee's Extension: press 1
Dial by name directory: press 0
Customer Service: press 2
Operator: press 3

PowerSellers Toll Free Direct Line
866-323-3229

eBay fees, how eBay screws you with them, and how you can screw them back

Of all the common complaints from powersellers regarding the pitiful service provided by eBay the exorbitant amount of fees has to be one of the most mentioned in all the forums.

The problem is not that they charge a fee. They provide a service and keep an infrastructure that fulfills a purpose, and it is only fair that they get paid for it.

However, a problem arises when they knowingly design a system that has the unique and exclusive purpose of overcharging you. How do they do this? The same way cell phone companies used to do it (round things up) and in a similar fashion to what shady insurance companies do (deny the claim, deny the claim, deny the claim and deny it until you cannot deny it anymore).

As everyone knows eBay will nickel and dime their sellers in every possible way. They could keep it simple, like a classified ad, or allow powersellers to pay a monthly all-you-can-eat fee. They could make it easy: charge a single fee. Instead, you get hit with the following:

- Insertion fees
- Reserve fees
- Buy it now fees
- Listing upgrade fees
- eBay picture service fees
- Seller tool fees
- Final value fees

This is not a one-or-another fee structure. I get hit with all of them every time I list something. The insertion fee is the welcome pad, all the other ones belong to upgrades (such as adding a subtitle or a tiny picture next to the listing) that are needed in an overcrowded market if you want to be noticed.

Listing a single "Buy it Now" item with just one or two upgrades and without any of their picture services costs me between $28 and $38. I pay that each single time I list an item. I list hundreds of items a week.

It is not true that "you get your fees back if your item does not sell". You can only get back the insertion fee, which is a pitiful $.01-$4 depending on the discount du-jour. Additionally, you never get back the money, you simply are not re-charged the insertion fee if you re-list it again, and only if you follow every absurd instruction on their booklet on how to do it.

This is easy if you are selling a single item and have nothing else going on in your life, but almost unmanageable if you use third party software and your sales volume prevents you from keeping mental track of things.

If the item sells, you are charged more money on top of that, the infamous FVF, or Final Value Fee.

This fee, the FVF, is the most ridiculous of them all. I need an Excel Spreadsheet with formulas touching 4 different cells to keep track of how much selling is costing me. The following paragraph has been taken verbatim from eBay's explanation on how much they charge you if your item sells:

"5.25% of the initial $25.00 ($1.31), plus 3.25% of the initial $25.01 - $1,000.00 ($31.69), plus 1.50% of the remaining closing value balance ($1000.01 - closing value)"

Now, that is just stupid.

Keep in mind all that above is on top of everything that you have already paid to get the item listed, and before you have to pay PayPal fees if you use them.

By now I have given up on trying to understand it, I just pay, but I still remember the very first time I tried to figure out how much I was going to get charged for selling things. Back in 1998 I gave eBay a call, and the conversation went more or less like my favorite scene from "A Night at the Opera"

Driftwood: Well I think I can get America to meet him half way. Could he sail tomorrow?
Fiorello: You pay him enough money he could sail yesterday. How much you pay him?
Driftwood: Well I dunno. (Walks off to the side in thought.) Let's see...a thousand dollars a night...I'm entitled to a small profit. (Walks back.) How about ten dollars a night?
Fiorello: Ten, ten dollar. Ha ha ha ha ha ha...I'll take it.
Driftwood: Alright, but remember I get 10% for negotiating the deal!
Fiorello: Yes, and I get 10% for bein' da manager. How much is dat leave?
Driftwood: Well, that leaves em...ahhh...eight dollars.
Fiorello: Eight dollars heh? Well, he sends five a week to his mother.
Driftwood: Well that leaves three dollars.
Fiorello: Can he live in New York on three dollars?
Driftwood: Like a prince! Of course he won't be able to eat, but he could live like a prince. However, out of that three dollars you know, he'll have to pay an income tax.
Fiorello: Oh, is income tax.
Driftwood: Yes you know, there's a federal tax, and a state tax, and a city tax, and street tax, and a sewer tax.
Fiorello: How much isat come to?
Driftwood: Well I figure, if he doesn't sing too often he could break even.
Fiorello: Alright, we take it!

Now, a lot of sellers think that eBay is not seeing how complicated this is. They think, and post in the forums, that nobody has suggested a simpler structure; a plain listing fee, like in a classified ad, or a plain percentage of a sale. Well, that makes so much sense! it would be such a good idea!

They know.

They will not do it.

Why? Because a complicated, excruciatingly convoluted and impossibly barbed fee structure is harder to challenge than a simple one. If the selling fees were simple, and I had a problem with the sale, I could ask for my simple fee back, and I would get them back, or not, but I would know.

With the current structure, if one of my sales ends up in fraud (happens about once every two days) I can request a FVF credit, but not a listing upgrade credit, I can have the insertion fees credited back, but only after I wait eight days to "work things out" with the buyer. But hey! the buyer is a Nigerian scammer that gave himself up, I already know this is fraud, look! PayPal took the money back, can I have my fees back? "No, sorry, gotta wait eight days", but why? why? why?

"Because there is a significant statistical probability that you will just forget about it and we will get to keep the money."

That is the reason. No other.

Why are the fees complicated? Because if you have to perform 7 steps and wait more than 8 days but less than 45 while depending on other parties to make their move in order for you to get your money back there is a chance you will stop at step 3, or 4, or 6. Maybe your wife will interrupt you, or your boss will walk into you, or the UPS guy is at the front door.

This may not happen all the time, but it does not have to happen all the time for them to make money, they are gambling on the volume of sales. If they manage to keep 28% of fees that they should not keep they are easily making an additional $300M. So volume works for them, just like it does for dishonest insurance companies. If you put enough stops, a large number of people will never get what is rightfully theirs.

So, how do you screw them back? You play the same game.

I dispute each and every single FVF for each sale that I make. A large number of buyers go "Hey, what are you doing? I already paid for the item". To those, I say "Sorry, must have confused your auction with someone else's, I apologize" and that is the end of the story. Keep in mind that what it is a systematic methodology for you is an odd occurrence for them. It is no biggie.

However, just like there is a large number of people that never manage to get their fees back from eBay, there is a large number of people that never answer a FVF challenge. Maybe they don't check their email often enough, or they use an account that is only used when they buy something on eBay, or they do not know that they are supposed to respond, or they see it but they just forget it, whatever the reason, if they do not respond in 7 days I get my FVF's back. This happens often enough for me to get thousands of dollars back each month, and I cannot tell you how much pleasure I exude every time this happens. I almost get an adrenaline rush each time I see the little message "FVF Credit granted".

This, of course, only works financially if you are a powerseller, and if you have a large number of transactions. However, it can also work for the casual user. Go ahead and dispute all your FVF's, tell eBay that you did not get paid, or the item was returned, or lost. If the buyer catches you, quickly apologize and move on, if they do not, count the dollars you took back from the evil corporation and buy yourself an extra sandwich, or put some more money towards your kids' college fund, you deserve it.

A note about some of the tactics

I belong to the school of though that approaches business and commerce like you would approach war. The best book that I ever read on business (and I have read hundreds) was "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu. Some of the tactics that I use will appear to be deceitful, cruel, abusive, and borderline unethical. I do not believe any of them are immoral or unethical, I just think that some people may be playing by a different book of rules. In business, like in war, the goal is to win, to beat your opponent. One sale for a competitor is one sale that I lose, and one dollar that you make is one dollar that my children do not get, and I would kill for my children.

This is an opportunity for me to be brutally honest. To show you everything under the hood without fear of retribution or having to be politically correct about it. Therefore, a warning for travelers: nasty curves ahead.

10 Ways in wich eBay screws you, and how to screw then back

I just came back from my third trip to China. I was there sourcing products to be sold under one of my eBay accounts. The trip was a success; lots of products, cheap prices, and new commitments from eager factory managers.

Just as I was landing I was listening to some of the podcasts that I had downloaded right before boarding the plane and I got wind of all the scandal with the recalls from Mattel. The funny thing is that I know it is not going to end there. I know this because I have seen it.

I have seen the dirty factories, the polluted and dead rivers, the complete lack of any kind of environmental or health regulations, the absence of accountability that exists in a top-down government structure that does not allow for those down in the bottom to report those on top.

I have seen the air in Beijing, which... you are not supposed to see. Air should be colorless, but not in Beijing, in Beijing the air is brown.

I have seen the greed that has driven an allegedly communist country (which should stand for the abolition of private property and the government regulation of every industrial activity while providing all basic services to its citizens such as education and health care) become, without a doubt, the most capitalistic country in the planet: everybody does whatever the fuck they want to, where they want to do it and without any regulation, oversight, or governance.

There is no health care, no state-provided education, no regard for those without financial resources (70% of the country's population lives in rural areas, a significant number of them without water or electricity) and no discernible goal in sight other than growth for the sake of growth.

I had issues during this trip. It was hard for me to justify the moral dilemma of perpetuating a system that is corrupt in nature and unfair in its structure. I rationalized it the best I could: someone else would do it if it was not me; if I don't do it the competition will put me out of business; I have no choice if I don't want to live under a bridge. I was troubled, and then it hit me:

eBay is China.

I am a powerseller; a titanium one for that matter. I make a very good living out of eBay. I am hesitant to provide any specific details because the information I am about to post will piss the hell out of quite a few suits at eBay, but suffice to say my revenues are in the seven figures. I travel around the world in first class and have a lifestyle that most people will never be able to achieve. I have done well.

However, I have done well through an evil organization. Just like China, eBay is a juggernaut not to be fucked with. They can be your best friend, but look at them the wrong way and they will throw you under the bus without hesitation. Just like China, eBay has no goal other than growth for the sake of growth. There is no care or concern whether the fees or the sales come from counterfeit goods, stolen items, or downright fraudulent activity: a sale is a sale is a sale, and it generates fees, and fees are good, and we must continue to generate them faster and thicker today than we did yesterday. Corporate citizenship? What is that? Does it have something to do with watches?

It is, without a doubt, an evil organization, and yet, I have done so well...

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but disdain for all the whiners that I see in some forums. "eBay canceled my account for no reason", "they were rude to me", "they don't care about their sellers". Duh! Just like a good poker player says: if you cannot spot the sucker in the tablet five minutes after you sit down the sucker is you. Either get on with the program and play by the rules or go play someone else.

and yet... they are all right.

So, I decided that I would level the playing field a bit.

I have been selling in eBay since 1997. As a student I made $3,000/month selling.... mmmhh.. I was about to give a clue here. Let's just say that I bought something that cost me 70 cents and I sold it for $5. Customers were happy and I got nothing but good feedback. This was back in the pre-PayPal days (another evil twin, more on them later). Imagine walking into the bank as a junior in College and trying to deposit 87 $5 money orders. Good times, good times...

Since then, I have been doing so well, that I am afraid to share with people what I do for a living because I fear they will get ideas and start competing with me. I also fear resentment. Most people would not consider selling in eBay a "real job", even though this year I paid more taxes than their entire gross yearly income. During this time, I have learned every trick on the book, I have learned all the tricks that people tried to play on me (daily instances of fraud) to the ones that I get to play with eBay.

And this, is what I am going to tell you. I am going to share with you each way that I know in which eBay and PayPal screw you, and how to screw them back. I am going to share how you can get your fees back from eBay even after the sale successfully closed. I am going to tell you how you can get PayPal to pay you $1,000 for sending a Nigerian scammer a box full of rocks. I am going to show you how you can divert traffic from your eBay pages to your completely free ecommerce site thereby skipping their ridiculously overpriced fees. I am going to show you how to subvert the system while still making money and without anybody noticing it.

How is this a good thing? Why am I doing it? I don't know. Perhaps it is the revolutionary trace left in me after all this years. A need to stick it to the man, a way to show an exceedingly large and powerful organization that the most unexpected problems can be generated by the most insignificant people. If nothing else, it will give me something to do while I wait for my PayPal payments to clear.